Comments on The Software Maven: Python Versus Erlang for an MMOG

I've created a threading framework for Python ...

2009-11-10T18:38:04.747-07:00

I've created a threading framework for Python that implements erlang-style semantics using heavyweight python-processes, avoiding issues with the GIL:

http://manageddreams.com/python-threadingx

It should be noted that when EVE started using Sta...

2008-02-24T09:47:00.000-07:00

It should be noted that when EVE started using Stackless, Stackless was very different. At the time it used continuations and actually aimed to be stack-less, through eschewing the stack for the heap as you would expect. However, time passed and it was rewritten. As such, opinions based experience when EVE started using it should be taken with a grain of salt. Which isn't to say they are necessarily wrong, but rather baseless as a blind measure of the current state or utility of Stackless Python.

I'm the principle Erlang dev for Vendetta Online. ...

2008-01-25T20:36:00.000-07:00

I'm the principle Erlang dev for Vendetta Online. I did some prototyping in stackless years ago for another company (right around the time EVE started using it) and I've done a pretty full-scale actor-pattern game-mech system in common lisp. Erlang beats them both hands down, IMO. Mostly because of the good impedance match between that paradigm and Erlang (especially per-proc gc), but I'm coming to really love the language all around.

Contrary to your mention of our game, and probably some of our own news posts, Erlang is handling a lot more than AI on our server side. It's basically the new game-mech backbone, and over time we'll be moving everything but the most performance sensitive parts of our server side into it. Email me if you want to chat about your design; I might even be able to send you some useful code.

BTW, I'd recommend looking into QuickCheck; I wish I'd known about it *before* writing tens of thousands of lines of Erlang with no test coverage to speak of.

2008-01-06T23:35:00.000-07:00

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You are also aware of 'greenlet'?

http://co...

2008-01-04T08:12:00.000-07:00

You are also aware of 'greenlet'?

http://codespeak.net/py/dist/greenlet.html

Use the right tool for the right job.

Use P...

2008-01-02T14:16:00.000-07:00

Use the right tool for the right job.

Use Python (or some other scripting language) for your game logic. It's easy to develop in, and easy to understand. Your game logic will change a lot in the course of development; use a language that will support this.

For your server, for your thousand core giganormous box running your hundreds of virtual worlds, use Erlang.

It's not a true/false, if/else, black/white discussion. Use the right tool for the job.

To be sure, Eve Online is not running on a single ...

2008-01-01T10:43:00.000-07:00

To be sure, Eve Online is not running on a single CPU. The point is that a single process in Stackless can only run a single CPU. This provides significant challenges in areas where large numbers of people congregate, since the process can't grow horizontally and the process can't be made any more fine-grain.

See, for instance, this discussion.

Similarly, the client suffers from the same challenges of single-threading.

Um, I really don't think Eve online is running...

2008-01-01T08:19:00.000-07:00

Um, I really don't think Eve online is running on one cpu. Their game is also semi-sharded in that real-time play only exists between players in the same solar system of which there are thousands. Inter-system is limited to chat, market transactions, statistic reportings etc. 4-500 players in same system really, really lag it. Visit Jita sometime, Eve has a free two week trial https://secure.eve-online.com/ft/?aid=103543&bid=1

Eve regularly breaks their record of concurrent users. And from various dev posts it sounds like the bottlenecks are db related.

To answer your question you should use both. Erlang for the server / networking / "process" managment and Python for the logic / "missions" / whatever your game uses.

Also see http://secondlife.blogs.com/babbage/2006/05/microthreading_.html
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/534162
http://twistedmatrix.com/pipermail/twisted-python/2007-December/016504.html

It's ...

2008-01-01T02:29:00.000-07:00

It's Ericsson not Erickson.

Good work. I have often looked at Erlang in buildi...

2007-12-31T13:19:00.000-07:00

Good work. I have often looked at Erlang in building web services. I am going to look at it once again. I think you have found a role that Erlang can fill nicely, though.